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Mario Antonucci
NAME- Mario Antonucci
NATION- Italy
DATE (S) OF INTERVIEW (S)- May 1990 (telephonic), April 1991
PLACE OF INTERVIEW- 1990-Italy; 1991 Washington, DC.
LANGUAGE CONDUCTED- English
SIGNIFICANCE OF SUBJECT- -Alpine Commando, anti-partisan Hunter in Russia, Albania, and Yugoslavia.
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE- None
FORMAT- Q & A standard
Q- When and where were you born, Mario?
A- I was born on 3 December 1919 in the town of Arzignape, south of Vicenza, Italy.
Q- What was your family life like?
A- I had a great childhood. My father was a town official, working as a postman and had served in the First World War. My mother was a typical housewife, and we had four children in the family. I was the third son; my two older brothers were also soldiers. The eldest was Enrico who was in Ethiopia in the 1930s, and later he was killed as an infantryman in Libya in 1942. The next oldest was Paul, and he disappeared after Stalingrad. We never heard from him again. I survived and was the only son to come home, and we had a sister, Maribella. She married an American paratrooper officer after the war and lives in the United States. We had a great childhood. My grandfather was an excellent mountaineer and was one of the founders of the mountain search and rescue programme in the Alps where we lived. My father made sure that every man in the family could ski and climb mountains. It was not like work for us; we enjoyed it. One of the worst punishments we could have as children was to be forbidden to climb the mountains in summer after school, as all of our friends would enjoy skiing and climbing.
Q- How did you join the army?
A- Well, under Mussolini every man served in the military or some form of civil service. You could not escape it, and you did not get to choose where you went. The village mayor filled out the forms for the military representative, stating in a list all men in the area, their ages and dates of birth, and what their hobbies and special talents were. All of my brothers and I were destined to become Alpini because our family was famous as mountaineers.
Q- How did you get involved in the war?
A- I went to Alpine Warfare School once I graduated from the University
in Milan, and attended the Basic Officers Academy in 1940, then after a
demonstration of my rappelling, skiing and climbing skills I was made an
instructor at the Alpine School. This was a two-year assignment normally, but
I spent only a few weeks there. The situation in Albania was terrible and Mussolini wanted to send thousands of troops in to support the disaster he
had created. I arrive in Albania by aircraft and met General Messe, who later
became a Field Marshal. I was a young lieutenant assigned to the logistics
section of the Special Corps Commandos. This was the beginning of my
crazy career.
Q- When did you first see combat?
A- This was September 1940. We were trying to bring a column of trucks, about twelve I think, when we were suddenly attacked by partisans. They were using only small arms, but they killed several soldiers and half the trucks were destroyed or rendered useless; flat tires, punctured fuel tanks, that sort of thing. Our unit had no discipline; the men went chasing these rebels into the mountains, which was just what they wanted. Over fifty of my men took off against my orders, three came back. The rest were dead, caught in another ambush. We could not even retrieve the dead due to the superior firepower and enemy numbers. That would not be the first time I fought partisans. The next time was in Greece, when we invaded in October. The Greek Army was not really a problem. The problem was those damned mountain warriors; they were like mountain goats with rifles and machine guns. They were every-where, and we could not give chase. Another problem was that our obser-vation aircraft were not reliable due to the weather, which closed in quickly and made flying very dangerous for the pilots. Also there were no nearby airstrips so the planes had little overhead observation time.
Q- How long did you stay in Greece and Albania?
A- I spent three weeks in Albania from September through October 1940, then five months in Greece, and then I went to Austria for a Command and Staff school to perfect my German and learn the new tactical integration techniques. This was a programme where the Axis allies held schools to assist combined forces operations. This was especially critical for the upcoming Russian campaign, as we were to later learn. I then went to Yugoslavia for several months, where I stayed, until December 1941. I was then assigned to the Caucasus, part of the Italian contingent supporting the German 11th Army.
Q- What was the fighting in Yugoslavia like?
A- I would compare Yugoslavia to the Caucasus; mountainous and very cold I winter. I returned to Yugoslavia just before Operation White in 1943, and this was a massive operation launched by the Germans. Fighting Tito’s partisans was murderous, and sometimes because of the confusion we were hit by friendly fire. We worked sometimes with the Chetniks and the Germans, but the Germans and Chetniks had a very strange relationship. Also, our military did some stupid things, but the Germans really screwed things up by their reactions to partisan activities. I think that we had a better rapport with the population in most cases, and German army forces had a better relationship than the SS, for obvious reasons. The same can be said of Russia.
Q- What was your feeling about the counterinsurgency war?
A- In fighting regular soldiers there are many advantages, such as easily identifying your opponent; understanding that there are accepted rules of warfare, and the knowledge that you could possibly out-manoeuvre a conventional force. With partisans this was not the case; you never knew where you stood and the accepted rules if war did not apply. The fact that the Germans performed the way they did made life very difficult for all of us. I hated the Balkans and I have never returned, not even for a holiday. This was the worst war because of the uncertainty as to who your enemy was, and it was difficult to trust anyone outside your unit. Another thing was the fear of being captured. We had seen the result of what happened to our men and Germans who had become prisoners. It was not a pretty sight; mutilations, just horrible. This was especially true during the Battle at the Neretva River, where our 2nd Italian Army took many casualties. I was there when General Ambrosio sent the report to higher, which meant Mussolini, who wanted reports on every action. This was when the Chetniks were almost wiped out and the Germans decided to disarm most of the Chetnik units.
Q- You did work with German units on occasion, correct?
A- Yes. I worked with various units, such as the 6th, 7th and 13th SS Divisions in Yugoslavia, as well as the 28th SS Division, although it was only a regiment at that time and under Leon Degrelle and Herbert Gille of ‘Wiking’ in the Caucasus and Ukraine at various times. Since I spoke decent German as well as English and French I was kind of in demand. In Yugoslavia I worked with Major General Doerr, who was Chief of the General Staff. I also worked with Romanian troops in Russia, a very disappointing time I can tell you.
Q- Why did the Italians earn the reputation for being second class soldiers, when compared to the Germans and the Western Allies?
A- This was because as an overall collective military body we earned this reputation. Our army was terrible, with exception to the alpine troops and commandos, to which I belonged. I am not just saying this. Even the Germans requested our assistance, even SS units, and they were pleased to have us.
Q- Why were the alpine troops and commandos considered better?
A- It was a simple situation. The alpine troops and ski commandos only took those men who already possessed the necessary skills; professionals and recreational climbers who needed only the basic training as soldiers. Also, it must be understood that morale in the Italian military was not the highest. Mussolini fell from popular opinion before the war started due to his decisions to attack Libya and Ethiopia. Once the truth came out about the casualties and the atrocities committed by the military, many people felt that he was a dangerous man who cared only for himself. I think this was the case,
although I never met Mussolini personally. The basic soldier was trained by
an officer leadership still tied to the aristocracy, which Mussolini despised,
and the harsh reality of the United States joining the war was the last great
nail in his coffin. Everyone I knew either had a relative in the States or
wanted to go there, even myself. I had an uncle living in Philadelphia who
married a Sicilian girl he met in Palermo, and he was in business. Getting
back to the question, we were considered the elite, and were the only group in
the Italian military to be decorated with Iron and Knight’s Crosses. Our
battalion commander had the Knight’s Cross, a very rare distinction,
presented to him by Manstein. I was there, and that made us all proud. I was
given the Iron Cross Second Class by Doerr following White. We were
respected because we had an elitist mentality that would not allow us to
become connected to the rest of the army.
Q- What was the worst battle you were involved in?
A- Well, Operation White and the Neretva were bad, but as far as just prolonged, dirty, deadly and tension building, the ten-day battle in the Caucasus against the Communist partisans, where we fought with the Germans was the worst. The terrain was high mountain when the fight started, but we were pushed down into the valley, dropping over two thousand metres in elevation and spanning twenty miles in a running fight that was incredible. We were about four thousand strong and were outnumbered at least four if not five to one. I had 220 men in my reinforced company, which included the headquarters and communications units. By the end of the battle I had thirty-six men left, and all but a dozen were wounded, including myself. I took a bullet through the leg, which passed right through cleanly. I was quite nervous about trying to limp out of the Caucasus with all these wounded, and transportation in that region was impossible. There were no roads, and even the roads built by the engineers were unimproved and liable to be washed out or blown by the partisans. Due to the terrain what vehicles did operate there were soon useless; transmissions burned out and engines seizing. The most effective method was horses or oxen, and these were shot by the partisans, which provided food for us but nothing else. It was just horrible.
Q- How did the war end for you?
A- I was fighting in the north of Italy near Milan when the war was coming to an end. When Italy switched sides in the war and Mussolini was arrested in 1943, I decided that enough was enough, and told my men to throw away their uniforms and defect if they wanted to. The problem was our families; we were worried about what might happen to them. Most of the men decided to stay with the Mussolini military, only a few switched to Badoglio’s side. I decided to stay with the Fascists simply because of my family. I knew that we could not win the war. I only wanted to survive, since two of my brothers had not. I owed that to my family, because I had already served my country. I surrendered to a British unit, who used me as an interpreter for other prisoners of war. After seven months I was released, and went home. I remember my mother crying to exhaustion when she saw me, holding the two letters stating one son was killed and the other was missing in Russia, captured at Stalingrad. After five years of war and only two home leaves during that time, my mother made me promise I would never leave the village. I kept my word to her until she died in 1969, and my father died two years later. I came to the United States to visit relatives, and was amazed to find that my first cousin had been fighting in the U.S. 5th Army, and we were shooting at each other and did not even know it. I come back every now and then, and the family is all over the place, such as here in Washington DC, where a great nephew of mine works for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, although I don’t think that I can mention his name here without his permission.
Q- How is life for you now?
A- I retired after many years as a school teacher and ski instructor, and I was also one of the first people in my country to work as a helicopter paramedic near Vicenza and Tyrol, and we saved many lives after avalanches and snow storms. I feel that my life has some meaning. Once I delivered a baby near a ski slope, and that was the best day of my life until my own sons were born. I have no regrets, other than my brothers being lost. I only wish I knew why we had to fight that terrible war.