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Hans-Dietrich Hossfelder
NAME- Hans-Dietrich Hossfelder
NATION- Germany
DATE (S) OF INTERVIEW (S)- January-February 1985, March 1994.
PLACE OF INTERVIEW (S)- Bamberg, Germany (1985); telephonic (1994).
LANGUAGE (S) CONDUCTED- English
SIGNIFICANCE OF SUBJECT- Former Brandenburg commando; Waffen SS panzergrenadier First Lieutenant awarded Knight’s Cross. Served in 2nd Waffen SS and Skorzeny Kommando; one of six members of the Klingenberg capture of Belgrade in April 1941.
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE- SS Major Rudolf von Falkenhahn, PFC John A. Donatelli, US Army.
FORMAT- Q & A standard
Q- When and where were you born?
A- I was born on 29 April 1920 in Tarnowitz, a small town north of Breslau in Silesia. I was the second of three brothers, Hannes, Hugo, and myself, and we had one sister, Klara. My father was a leather tanner and merchant by trade, and had worked for the Imperial stables of the Kaiser during the First World War.
Q- What was your education like?
A- The standard primary and secondary, with the passing of the abitur determining whether I would go to a university or a trade school. I did attend the University in Breslau briefly, but the war caught up with me.
Q- How did your military career start?
A- Well, in 1939 there was not the great conscription that we later had; if you were in school that was considered important. I received a deferment since I was studying languages. My mother was Russian by birth with a Polish mother, so I spoke German, Polish, Russian, and took French and English in school. The military felt that was important, so they left me alone until 1940. Just before the invasion of France I finished basic training, and was in the army. Suddenly, on the day I was to leave for the front with my unit an SS man came in with a civilian. He called three names and all of us ran forward. Because of our unique language skills and knowledge of other cultures, we were asked to ‘volunteer’ for a special unit. This was how I became involved with the Brandenburg Commando.
Q- What was the training like?
A- It was more demanding than the army, which was tough enough, but this camp was run by the Abwehr with SS instructors. We were up at four in the morning, running ten kilometres, then coming back, have a shower, eat breakfast, attack the obstacle course, then do a ten mile rucksack run. After this it was about 1600 hours so we had dinner. We would receive political indoctrination on the tenants of National Socialism, why we were fighting the war, how great Hitler was, and why we had to swear an oath of allegiance to him. They showed us propaganda films, mostly illustrating why the Jews were our greatest enemy, although this position would change after Barbarossa, when the Communists in Russia took that prestigious position. Then we were told that the Jews and Communists were in the great plan together, which was sort of ironic to me. I remember my father hiring a man to work for him who had left Russia when I was a boy, stating how Jews were so terribly treated by the Soviets, and that many hoped the Germans would return, like in the Great War. So I knew that much of what we were being told did not make sense. But do you think that I, as a private soldier, was going to openly contradict a political officer of the SS? My mother did not give birth to a fool.
Q- How did you join the SS?
A- Well, a point must be made here. I joined the Waffen SS, not the Allgemeine or the SD, Gestapo, or any of that nonsense. Most of the men in this original Freiwilligen unit would either come from the SS or would be incorporated within Waffen SS and Luftwaffe Fallschirmjaeger (parachute) units later in the war. My superior officer during this period was Unterscharfuehrer (1st Lieutenant) Adrian von Foelkersam, a wonderful officer who spoke the cleanest Russian I had ever heard, even from a Russian. I would meet him later in the war when I was recruited by Otto Skorzeny for a couple of missions. Both of these men were characters, but as different as night and day.
Q- How were they different?
A- Foelkersam was short, shy, very quiet and analytical to the final degree; he would later become a Sturmbannfuehrer with the Knight's Cross, while Skorzeny was much taller than I who was six foot two; very boisterous, always energetic and the life of any party and always the center of attention. He had a massive ego but he was a damned good leader.
Q- How did the Waffen SS units develop such a bad reputation after the war, if the Einsatzgruppen and Sonderkommando were the responsible parties in most of the killings in the field?
A- This is one of the most interesting questions, and I think that after so
much time has passed there is no need for lies and covering up. The
Waffen SS and even army units participated in the destruction of
villages, shootings, the like. In the case of the anti-partisan war this
was standard procedure, and was even protected under the Geneva
Conventions. That is why anyone convicted of killing partisans was
later released, like Kurt Student over the Crete issue, and Bach-
Zelewski in Russia. Many people have often wondered if we actually
had standing orders to shoot women and children, and I know that
there have been many denials regarding this by former SS members.
However, it was unfortunately true. I can state that these types of
orders were not as commonplace in my unit as in others, obviously.
When we speak about the partisans it must be understood that these
were of course criminals even according to the Geneva and Hague
Conventions, since they forfeited their non-combatant status upon
taking up arms against us. Our handling of these people was considered
within our right, although there were many excesses and outright war crimes
committed against innocent people. This cannot be completely overlooked.
However, most people after the war never bothered to distinguish between
the Waffen SS and the other branches, such as the death camp guards, who
were not Waffen SS quality and in many cases were not even Germans, but
Ostarbeiter (Eastern Workers) and Hilfswillige. It would be the same as if
people were to say that every American soldier or Marine in Vietnam was as
guilty as that officer Calley, and everyone participated in murder. It just was
not true.
Q- What was the major difference between how the partisans in Russia, the
Balkans, and Western Europe were treated? There were differences.
A- Sure, most of it cultural and reinforced by our political indoctrination. I can give you an example. It was one thing to enter Russia and combat the Red Army, kill partisans and the like. We had been indoctrinated to believe that they were a subhuman culture, slightly above the status of animals, and this was not too hard for many of us to believe. I believed it. However, the men who entered Greece before June 1941, and I was one of them, found the characteristics and differences startling. We knew from our history the greatness of Greece, the corner stone of civilisation and the birth of classical literature. But the Russians? There were millions of them with ethnic German blood, sure, but they were the ones being persecuted by Stalin, especially in the Ukraine. This was why we were loved going into the country; we were liberators. But in Greece it would have been difficult to carry out or issue an order to kill people simply because they had to die. This was not the case in Russia. Now, when these troops returned from Russia and the brutal anti-partisan war in Yugoslavia, it was a different matter. Men had seen and done so much killing, it almost seemed to be just a part of the job. I do not say that it is right now or even that it was right back then. It was only right according to the times we found ourselves in, given the particulars of the circumstance. It was very sad. Yet in France, for example, the partisans were of course killed without mercy, but it was fairly rare to have a village burned down in reprisal, with exception to Oradur-sur-Glane, for I was there with Standarten-fuehrer (SS Colonel) Otto Dickmann when he gave the order, and this was a senseless and tragic mistake.
Q- Were there any repercussions because of the French village and the massacre of the civilians?
A- Not really, Himmler tried to cover it up from what I understand, because we had over 20,000 Frenchmen in the Waffen SS units, such as the ‘Charle-magne’ Division, a fine unit in the field. Himmler did not want these things to happen due to the possible negative response from so many Freiwilligen with weapons. The same was true in Russia also, and in Yugoslavia. Dead people make bad public relations and do not assist in recruiting efforts. It was believed that killing the partisans, their supporters, and calling them ‘bandits’ would destroy any lingering doubts as to their legal status under the articles of war.
Q- How would you rate the quality of the SS men of say, 1940 with the men being recruited or even drafted later in the war?
A- As different as night and day, that is the great shame of it. I remember in 1940 when I joined the army; the difference from that time to say, 1943 or even later, I remember being in the unit [‘Das Reich’] who could only not speak German, but often though they were being taken for forced labour. There was one man in particular that we grabbed in Luxembourg in 1944 who was astonished that instead of shooting him we gave him a uniform and a rifle. He immediately began fumbling with the weapon and accidentally shot another man who was standing nearby. The wounded man was all right, only slightly wounded. This was indicative of how low we had sunk; we were not the same Waffen SS of legend. I believe that this situation was symptomatic of the eventual destruction of Germany and the best Germany had. It was just our time, like the Praetorians of Rome.
Q- Describe the day your reconnaissance unit captured Belgrade.
A- This was perhaps one of the most interesting stories in history. We had been sent forward as the motorcycle unit to look for any method of crossing the Danube. If any bridges were intact we were to report this back and try to hold it, keeping it from being blown. We had no such luck. I found a small motor boat and we decided to ferry as many men across as possible. Three men at a time could fit in the boat, four if not all the gear was brought over, and we managed to make three trips. Hauptsturmfuehrer (SS Captain) [Fritz] Klingenberg led the men across,and I came in the second load. Unfortunately, the boat hit something in the water and sank, leaving seven of us stranded alone on the other side. The river was very wide, deep, and fast due to the winter snows melting. It was very similar to those scenes in the white water rafting shows in your country. We had a radio, four rifles, two MP-38’s, one pistol, and about twenty rounds of ammunition each. Klingenberg ordered the remainder of the unit to split in two; one group would continue up river looking for a place to cross and the other would establish a security line to prevent any Yugoslav forces from attacking our rear. Our small group was to move forward and report back on any enemy movements to our battalion commander, Obersturmbannfuehrer (SS Lieutenant Colonel) Hannes Eckhold. Another problem for the division following us was that the terrain would not accommodate tanks, so they would have to take the long route around and cross a pontoon bridge that was being built down river by an engineer battalion. We moved forward on foot, coming across several Yugoslav soldiers, including two British trucks and a bus with twenty soldiers. One man was a German civilian, a tourist who was so drunk he did not realise that the soldiers thought he was a spy and were taking him to be shot. We disarmed them and tied them up, heading on further. We used the tourist as an interpreter since he spoke the language after he sobered up. We used some of the prisoners as a shield in order to mask our identity, hiding among them as a deception as we neared Belgrade. By the end of the first day we had passed several checkpoints in our captured vehicles without difficulty, it seemed too easy. That ended quickly. Just outside the city we were fired upon when one of the prisoners yelled out and warned his comrades. He was shot, and we were involved in a two-hour fire fight that basically used up all of our ammunition. We managed to drive through the soldiers and entered the city where we drove to the city plaza. This was where Klingenberg showed his brilliance. Here we were, seven German soldiers, over a dozen prisoners, and thousands of civilians looking at us, and our leader ordered the German ensign raised up the flagpole as if we owned the place. I did it and the people seemed not to even care. Soon the mayor arrived and began discussing the terms of surrender, thinking that we were a much larger group. Klingenberg told him that if we did not check in by radio regularly there would be a massive retaliatory bombing. Then, at that moment a German Fiesler ‘Storch’ flew overhead, and thinking quickly, Klingenberg told the mayor that the clock was ticking. What the mayor did not know was that the radio had taken a bullet; it could receive but not transmit. I faked radio traffic for hours, keeping up the illusion. The city agreed that that 1,300 soldiers and militia would surrender their weapons, and Klingenberg ordered the prisoners to quarter themselves in the various hotels and placed a curfew on the city. They really believed that an entire SS panzer division was right outside, which was lucky for us. We recruited trustworthy locals and collected every map and document at the mayor’s office and police stations. We also had every doctor and nurse report to us, and we had the chief of police disclose all criminal records for future intelligence work. We also inventoried and stockpiled all the gasoline, oil, and vehicles, and waited. The schools were to remain open, since we were trying to cultivate a friendly atmosphere. We did collect all the bottles of wine and beer we could find, knowing that a party would follow. We used POW’s to repair the runway and we had the locations of all the anti-aircraft positions and mine fields.
Q- How long were you in the city?
A- We arrived in Belgrade on 12 April, secured the city, and the rest of our division and the headquarters of XLV Corps entered on the evening of the 13th. When the first group entered the city I quickly explained the situation to them and had them play along. They had written us off as missing in action when the rest of the unit had not heard from us due to the radio being broken. There was a rumour that we had been captured and tortured for information. There was also a rumour that Klingenberg had spent the entire evening in a brothel, which was not true. He did have a liaison, as did two other men, but he was not in dereliction of his duties. The corps commander was threatening courts martial for Klingenberg and the rest of us until he learned the truth. When he asked to speak to the mayor, we learned that he had shot himself. We also found out that the High Command did not believe that Belgrade had been taken, since the force projection was for a siege, not a rapid capture, and Hausser was ordered to inspect for himself. We were all decorated with the Iron Cross, and Klingenberg was presented with the Knight’s Cross. I was offered a commission and attended the academy at Bad Toelz and was able to attend the following year. The invasion of Russia interrupted my plans.
Q- Where did you serve during the war after Yugoslavia?
A- Well, I stayed with ‘Das Reich’ for most of the war. I fought at Kharkov in 1942 serving under Otto Kumm, then went to the academy, where I finished in August 1942. With my new commission I became a platoon leader, and was wounded during an artillery barrage. I spent several months recuperating and received the Iron Cross First Class, Wound Badge, and I already had the Infantry Assault and General Assault Badges. I later was assigned to the anti-tank company of ‘Der Fuehrer’ Regiment, where I stayed all through Kursk.
Q- You were recruited by Otto Skorzeny for his secret missions. What was that like?
A- Skorzeny was a unique person, very sure of himself and always planning great missions. He was always fascinated by our Belgrade mission, and also later by Foelkersam who became his adjutant, when he captured the oil wells in Russia. He wanted language speakers in 1944 and I found myself assigned to a special unit dressed in American uniforms. One of my men was a gefreiter (lance-corporal) named Manfred Pernass. He was captured along with a few others and executed by the Americans. We were responsible for altering road signs, re-directing military traffic, that sort of thing. It was really a last ditch effort. Before that I had accompanied Skorzeny and Foelkersam to Budapest on the mission to secure Admiral Horthy’s son, once it became known that he was planning on pulling Hungary out of the war and possibly joining the Allies. That was not a great mission but the Propaganda Ministry loved it.
Q- Did you ever meet of the great personalities in the high command?
A- I never met Hitler, Himmler or Goebbels, none of those men. I did meet most of the SS generals at one time or another, such as Fegelein, Kumm, who I knew as a captain; Hausser, Dietrich, Gille, and others. I also met Degrelle and we became good friends even after the war, and I will place you in touch with him since he lives in Spain. You will find him interesting.
Q- How did the war end for you?
A- I was back with ‘Das Reich’ in January 1945 following the Battle of Bulge, as you call it. We were in Hungary at that time through February, and the Red Army was pouring through incredible numbers of troops. I was with a spare company made up of survivors from different units and commands. We had army, Luftwaffe, SS, even anti-Communist Hungarian partisans and soldiers. We even had some Italians. We fought throughout the month of February, then most of the unit retreated towards Austria and Czechoslovakia and everything fell apart. There was no command and control; soldiers were cut off and we were being pressed hard against the Danube. I surrendered to a British armoured unit with about sixteen men and I spent the next two years in various camps, being interrogated as to war crimes and shown photo-graphs of the dead at various camps. I was tried as a criminal at Dachau and shown the camp along with other prisoners. I could not believe what I was seeing, but I knew enough to know that anything was possible and I felt ashamed. I would never have been able to do anything like that, and I cannot understand anyone who could approve of such a thing. I know that there are those who deny it happened, but I can tell you, as an officer of the SS that it did happen, and we should never forget that. It should never be allowed to happen again. We were wrong, whether we were personally involved or not, and I will always remember this.